RationalWiki talk:All things in moderation

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Bongolian (talk · contribs · block  · rights  · rename)
DuceMoosolini (talk · contribs · block  · rights  · rename)
LeftyGreenMario (talk · contribs · block  · rights  · rename)
RoninMacbeth (talk · contribs · block  · rights  · rename)
RWRW (talk · contribs · block  · rights  · rename)
Spud (talk · contribs · block  · rights  · rename)

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My talk page[edit]

To the moderators: @Bongolian, @DuceMoosolini, @LeftyGreenMario, @RWRW, @RoninMacbeth, @Spud

ikanreed posted this message on my talk page:

You really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really should consider not being a dumb fucker, and changing every one of your views about everything.
— ikanreed 21:51, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

Since I don't see any way in which such message could be interpreted if not as a provocation that would never lead to anything good, and since at RationalWiki:Community_Standards I read: "users are permitted to delete posts from their own talk pages at their discretion, being responsible for any abuse of this permission", I decided to remove such post. However, subsequently DuceMoosolini reverted my edit, restoring ikanreed's provocation.

Why is it so?

I ask that ikanreed's post will be removed from my talk page. Thinker(unlicensed) 14:46, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

To be honest I've never seen the rationale in people not being allowed to remove stuff from their own talk page. --RWRW (talk) 15:02, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
In the context of this wiki, I don't think you have a case for removing that comment. Comments like that on your talk page let other users know who you are and what you've done here. I still take the view that to be a successful RationalWiki editor, you have to be pretty thick skinned. Spud (talk) 15:31, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
On the other hand, that's a harmless thing to ask for. On the other other hand, I really do want you to at least consider doing so. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 15:44, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
@Spud "Comments like that on your talk page let other users know who you are and what you've done here."
That comment only shows that I made ikanreed so pissed that he has the urge to keep repeating "stop being a dumb fucker" to me. How is that a valuable information that all other users should know, except if the intent is creating division between the users and incentivizing personal attacks over constructive dialogues? Thinker(unlicensed) 17:38, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
If this were a substantive comment, I might be more hesitant to say that it can be removed. As it is, I think it's reasonable to remove it. Let's hear from @DuceMoosolini before proceeding. Bongolian (talk) 18:01, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
(I already removed it before I even saw this meticulously crafted whining). ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 18:06, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────OK. Bongolian (talk) 18:22, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

@UnlicensedThinker If someone flops a gratuitous insult on your talk page, you can go to their talk page and leave a fuck-you-very-much note. Ariel31459 (talk) 18:34, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
@UnlicensedThinker Yeah, I think I'll be less stringent about the "don't remove stuff from your own talkpage" rule so long as the comments reverted are simple insults like this one was. DuceMoosoliniYour friendly RW dictator moderator 18:50, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
OK, good.
@Ariel31459 As a general rule, that's really unwise since it would probably lead to diatribes. Besides, I sincerely don't see what's the point of insulting and why some users have this irresistible necessity. Thinker(unlicensed) 18:55, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
I'm glad you think so. I suggest it as an alternative to waking up the moderators. They need their sleep.Ariel31459 (talk) 19:01, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
Probably just best to revert unless there's a more substantial argument in there. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 19:14, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
Okay, now I have to object. I have a serious and completely dissociated with "insult" point to make here. UT needs to cut his bullshit out, and if you're gonna characterize "stop being a dumbass" as a meaningless insult, then I'm putting it the fuck back. UT has a seriously bullshit laden disruptive streak centered on posting bigoted right wing bullshit then crying like a victim when people respond appropriately. Don't fucking baby him.
Person A: [bigoted statement]
Person B: The fuck?
Person C: Now, now, let's have civility.

Dear C: You came in one statement too late.
—John Scalzi>
Don't go down this fucking route. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 19:45, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
Not asking for civility, but it'll be better in the future to refer back to the argument where you responded to. Otherwise, I have to check UnlicensedThinker's edit history to find out what really set you off, and that can be a little annoying. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 19:53, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Agreed. There was no context or explanation. If you, ikanreed, had explained yourself, it would have been different. Bongolian (talk) 20:17, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

I don't think that's fair, because you could literally(Actually literally) click on any random changeset in his history and it's one of two things: bigoted bullshit or crying about injustices delivered upon him. That's actually a serious challenge, find the counter-example. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 20:41, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
OK, but let's say a year from now after those SaloonBar postings have long been archived, your talk page posting may still be there and unarchived. It makes it very hard to figure out what you were talking about without at least a link. Bongolian (talk) 20:51, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
Again, just a request for diff links, I don't think that's unreasonable. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 02:47, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
Feeling so put upon, by these requests that I justify thinking he's kind of a consistent shithead. But fine, there's a consistent jaqqing off about ring wing bigoted talking points. HIS ENTIRE HISTORY IS THAT. EVERY SINGLE FUCKING DIFF. Except the whiney ones like this one where he's like "people are so mean to me". This is the entirety of his "work" here except one, and I mean one, question about pseudoscience in dentistry. Can I please get my benefit of the doubt back? ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 19:32, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
That works. I'm aware of his behavior personally. I've generally given you benefit of the doubt though, I did expect you to comply and all and I did politely ask. Can this issue be resolved now? Thanks. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 19:42, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
Not sure what's the big issue here. People regularly insult each other. People also regularly remove or collapse unpleasant/provocative comments on talkpages. *shrugs* (talk) 03:00, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

Loss of Tech status[edit]

I can see being revoked of Tech powers, but since when did I abuse my powers before today? Wait, ah, I see. You, @LeftGreenMario got their side of the story without proper context. I`m going to contest all of the shit they've written about me except for the abuse of power done today:

  • That category called "c*nt" was created before, and I don't really see how recreating a joke category is an abuse of power.
  • "IP banned someone for minor reasons" You mean banning people for a few days for spamming? The last time I permabanned an IP was months ago, and I've since stopped doing it.
  • "Gave sysop to active trolls" I wasn't aware that the person in question was an active troll, he pulled a fast one on me that made me think it was a sockpuppet account of @Shabidoo.
  • "Archived a bunch of Saloon Bar" still in use: Nope, that shit hadn't been updated in days and made the whole Bar unavigable.

I contest your reasons for removing my Tech status on the grounds that none of the above count as flagrant abuses of power, and furthermore, the only conceivable abuse of power, today, was done under duress due to rage. I can see a temporary revocing of my rights, but not a permanent one.

I also contest that the reason Discord grew into a shitfest was solely my fault. I blew up in anger because I was being harassed, end of story. @LeftyGreenMario @DuceMoosolini @Bongolian @RWRW @Spud @GrammarCommieƉøn Ĵuan Harass 20:46, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

One more thing, that filter was meant to block spam, I fucked up with the coding. Ɖøn Ĵuan Harass 20:52, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
I don't think anything you did warrants worse than a slap on the wrist. Provided you promise to exercise better judgement in the future, I think your tech rights should be returned by, at the absolute latest, the end of the week. DuceMoosoliniYour friendly RW dictator moderator 20:58, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
I don't know anything about the discord drama or whatever that list of shit was that you posted; I'm just referring to the sysoprevoke. DuceMoosoliniYour friendly RW dictator moderator 20:59, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
The short version is that sysoprevoke ain't a joke. That we techs have it available to assign is not really intentional, only mods (and staff under very very very very very ultra limited circumstances) are supposed to give it, and that you can is more a side effect of the umbrella powers given. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 21:00, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
Exactly. I did fuck up this one time, but usually I`m very careful not to abuse my power. I'll exercise better judgement in the future. Pure rage can blindside reason, and they tested my patience one too many times. I`m normally a very patient person, but that cyberbullying was just too much. I was being ganged up on, any person would get angry at that. What really7 pissed me off was their hypocrisy and psychological projection. Anyways, I was an idiot for doing so, and I accept the consequences, although I don't think I should permanently lose my Tech status. Ɖøn Ĵuan Harass
I don't think you should lose it permanently, but Discord drama usually isn't applicable to wiki activity. Keep this in mind, Discord and Wiki are mostly independent entities with their own moderation and rules and such. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 23:58, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
Fair enough. Ɖøn Ĵuan Harass 00:24, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

It's hilarious comedy that I some how have the free time to fuck around with sock puppets. Could you link the discussion please? ShabiDOO 22:26, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

@Shabidoo it was an impersonation account named 'Shaibidoo' (now renamed to User:Trolly McTrollface). --RWRW (talk) 22:44, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
As they are known to say on planet Earth, haaaaahahahahahahaha. If a hole was torn in the universe and I ever actually made a sock-puppet, I would want it to be called Trolly McTrollface. ShabiDOO 00:18, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
I am against the unilateral revocation of rights above Autopatrolled. At the same time, @Don Juan, given sysoprevoke's new bearning in the eligibility of users to stand for mod or Board elections, sysoprevoke should also not be issued unilaterally. @LeftyGreenMario, what transpired between 19:56 and 20:23 to make you remove his powers? RoninMacbeth (talk) 19:10, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
I would like to clarify that it is reasonable to unilaterally remove Sysop status from Sysops who have not established themselves (Newbies) and who are causing a problem. This is per the Sysop guide (RationalWiki:Sysop guide#User rights management). Bongolian (talk) 19:18, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
@RoninMacbeth Don Juan (who is not the Discord admin) had a spat with several other people on Discord, and he not only banned one user on the wiki, attempted a permaban and attached to sysoprevoke. You can check the logs but nothing what that user did deserved a sysoprevoke or a permaban. Removing tech was my response for abuse of sysoprevoke; being unable to control emotions and then pushing buttons are not traits I would like to see from a tech. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 19:06, 25 January 2019 (UTC)


To the moderators: @Bongolian, @DuceMoosolini, @LeftyGreenMario, @RWRW, @RoninMacbeth, @Spud

I posted on the Saloon Bar this news from Business Insider, which reveals that Nathan Phillips lied about being a Vietnam veteran.

@Ikanreed collapsed my post, replacing it with the text: "native veteran isn't veteran enough for racist sea lion's personal taste".


I) In RationalWiki:Community_Standards#Talk_pages it is written: "users should not delete or change another user's comments on a talk or discussion page, with the following exceptions:

  1. Obviously vile comments made for the purposes of trolling, and of a user on his/her own talk-page, as described above.
  2. Posts from users who have been blocked from the site, but are circumventing the block by using an alternate IP address or sockpuppet account. Deletion of such posts is mandatory, as this is considered necessary for the proper enforcement of blocks.
  3. Spam and copypasta posts.
  4. Content that makes the talk page awkward to read or navigate, such as unsigned comments (use the unsigned template), messy formatting and footnotes (which should not be used on discussion pages)."

Since I do not see how my post could be considered (1), (2), (3), or (4), I think that ikanreed violated the community standards and the moderators should take some actions, at least including the removal of the collapse template.

II) I challenge ikanreed to explain how is reporting that somebody lied about being a Vietnam veteran an act of "racism".

Thinker(unlicensed) 16:21, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

I see nothing wrong with your comment, @UnlicensedThinker. I think it should remain and not be collapsed. Bongolian (talk) 18:11, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
I don't see anything wrong either, and I support uncollapsing your comment. I'll do it myself if no other mod objects. DuceMoosoliniYour friendly RW dictator moderator 18:22, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
I also endorse uncollapsing it. --RWRW (talk) 18:50, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
I endorse uncollapsing for now. At the same time, I also would like @Ikanreed to explain his action. RoninMacbeth (talk) 19:16, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
No collapse. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 19:48, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
No. I won't defend myself again.
I collapsed it because it was obviously stupid and pointless for the reasons I gave.
I don't want to argue here, because it's stupid and pointless rules lawyering in a peak-sea lion way. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 04:06, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
I don't appreciate the rules thumping either. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 19:45, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

nobs complaint[edit]

I have a similar complaint about at least three collapsed comments of mine. None violate Community Standards. They all were collaspsed just prior to the recent Coop case. nobs piss in my ear 22:00, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Nobs, you should not get a free pass for your bigoted bullshit trolling. You engaged in Holocaust denial on your talk page, here's how you engaged in Holocaust denial:

  1. You falsely stated that George Soros was a Nazi sympathizer, "That Soros was a Nazi collaborator is indisputable." (User talk:RobSmith#Pissgate).[1]
  2. Soros was in fact a victim of the Nazis because he was a minor (ages 13 to 14) in hiding during the Nazi occupation of Hungary.[2]
  3. You were therefore casting blame on the victim.
  4. Blaming the victim is in fact a form of Holocaust denial, according to three different experts on genocide.[3][4]

Bongolian (talk) 23:23, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

You're full of shit. Read the discussion. I explicitly said, more than once, it is idiocy to say Soros was a Nazi sympathizer. WTF? nobs piss in my ear 01:11, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
And yet, there is this defamatory and vile edit on Conservapedia by none other than RobSmith that is still there today, "He is a naturalized American citizen, born in Hungary where he worked for the Nazis as a teenager, fingering and looting his compatriot Jews."[5][6] Bongolian (talk) 02:23, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
Why don't you include the citation? It's cited properly. nobs piss in my ear 03:46, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
We at RationalWiki are "PROULY FUNDIGD AN CONTROLED BY GEORG SOROS", so go fuck yourself, Nobs. For those who care to read the transcript upon which Nobs bases his delusions, it can be found here. Bongolian (talk) 05:57, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
And here. nobs piss in my ear 06:47, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
@Bongolian Could you please split this section, separating the problem raised by nobs from mine? (Just putting something like "==Collapse nobs==" before the first comment of nobs) I have still one thing to say but I'm afraid now the discussion would get too confused (and I don't want to mix it with anything about Holocaust denial). Thanks Thinker(unlicensed) 08:56, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Seriously, just collapse perennial nutters and get on with your life. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 16:28, 28 January 2019 (UTC)


I have blocked Aeschylus and removed the sysop status I gave to their account three days ago in response mainly to their comments on RationalWiki:Articles for deletion/Emil Kirkegaard. It would seem to me eminently obvious that it would be unwise for them to continue using that account, and that external persons may continue to pressure them to delete various articles. The situation would become disruptive, if indeed it hasn't already (in my opinion it has). This doesn't in any way prejudice their returning incognito, should they wish to do so. NekoDysk 20:37, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

Technically, he hasn't made any legal threats. But he is dragging us into his legal affairs, so...eh? RoninMacbeth (talk) 21:37, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
It is entirely appropriate to ban and desysop. If anything, it provides him a degree of legal protection, because it explicitly makes it clear he has no responsibility for the state of those articles, though we cannot, of course, prevent any of his previous edits to those articles being deemed defamatory. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 21:51, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

There's socks everywhere. Socks of mike, socks of abd, socks of that other guy who hates abd. It might be a good idea to close the AfDs sometime because we already know the articles won't be deleted. NekoDysk 20:57, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

Yes, close all the Aeschylus AfDs. Socks of banned accounts should be permabanned when identifiable. Abd said that he had many socks just before he was permabanned. Bongolian (talk) 21:08, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
Just noting that connected to this, both Abd ul-Rahman Lomax, Michael Coombs, and their talk pages have been protected with sysop only access. To be fair this is probably a good idea given the recent low-level disruption connected to this matter. Hopefully this conflict has mostly burned out by now anyway but I will keep an eye on it. NekoDysk 15:40, 26 February 2019 (UTC)
I finally got round to blocking some of his old accounts, but by no means have I done all of them. They have returned, several times, since this incident. NekoDysk 22:04, 21 April 2019 (UTC)

Straw poll for moderators on trolls[edit]

@DuceMoosolini @LeftyGreenMario @RoninMacbeth @RWRW @Spud Should a chronic troll be allowed to have sysop privileges? Is chronic trolling sufficient reason for demopping? Could it be a contributory reason for demopping?

FYI, here is our current definition of trolling characteristics:

  • Deliberately angering people.
  • Making people act or say things that are considered obvious causing the individual to appear stupid to others witnessing the discussion.
  • Breaking the normal flow of debate/discussion.
  • Disrupting the “smooth” operation of the site.
  • Deliberately being annoying for the sake of being obnoxious. For instance, using abusive names to refer to all the members on the site.
  • Pretending to be profoundly ignorant or stupid, gleaning some weird sense of having "won" when other users subsequently come to believe this.
  • Making itself the main topic of interest or discussion. (Rarely a troll may do small amounts of productive work to disguise its true intentions.)

Bongolian (talk) 05:03, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

I know why you are asking us this. If you want to demop him, bring it to the coop. RoninMacbeth (talk) 05:37, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
Is this about Nobs by any chance? --RWRW (talk) 12:29, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
With all due disrespect to the trolls, being a sysop has absolutely zero bearing on any of those issues. NekoDysk 13:09, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
Of course a chronic troll should not be a sysop. And I have to agree with RoninMacbeth. Start a coop case. And I wish you luck. Spud (talk) 13:35, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
All of this should be obvious. I will bide my time. Bongolian (talk) 17:37, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
Agree with Bongo. DuceMoosoliniYour friendly RW dictator moderator 18:07, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Other than trolling, I know of two things things that he did recently that I consider worthy of Sysoprevoke. I only want to do this once, so I want to make sure that it's a solid case before bringing it to the Coop. That's why I was asking for your opinions about trolling. Bongolian (talk) 18:35, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

Hard position: Sysoprevoke sucks and should be used iff someone abuses sysop powers. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 18:58, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
That position opens us up to chronic troll infestations. Bongolian (talk) 19:10, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
We've already got those and they're respected members of the community. I guess? ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 19:12, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
I take a wait and see approach, but I also see little reason to give Rob any sysop tools. First, give me some backstory, why was Rob given sysop tools? Is it for the shits and giggles? --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 01:40, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
nobs was originally given the mob by @PolarBearInTheJungle (now inactive) in 2009. Between then and 2013 he was desysoped about 30 times, but each time he was given it back. People stopped desysoping him in 2013. NekoDysk 02:36, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
Seems to me more like he's just overdue. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 02:40, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
I think the real question is why did people stop desysopping him. One guess is that because it was before sysoprevoke existed, people just got tired of constantly desysopping him. Bongolian (talk) 03:14, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Since when has nobs abused sysop powers? Palaeonictis Fossil beds 05:41, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

I don't think he has. I think Bongolian just wants to sanction him for being, in his words, "a chronic troll." For some reason, however, he is opting for promotion over banning. RoninMacbeth (talk) 07:38, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
No, it really does go beyond trolling. I don't want to lay out my case until I'm ready though. Bongolian (talk) 07:42, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
And we eagerly wait for it. Don't fuck it up. RoninMacbeth (talk) 08:06, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
Then just ignore him. He hasn't abused his powers in such a way that we should revoke them, hell he barely uses them at all. He's a harmless old fool, don't let him get to you. Palaeonictis Fossil beds 11:58, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
I am pretty sure the idea is to put nobs in sysoprevoke so he can't become a mod. NekoDysk 13:43, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
We had a near-miss last election, if I recall correctly. If we had gone with FPTP, he might have been a mod instead of me. DuceMoosoliniYour friendly RW dictator moderator 13:55, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
Then maybe we should create protocol wherein a mod can be stripped of their power. I don't support putting Nobs into sysoprevoke because of potential future issues when he hasn't abused his powers as a sysop. In fact this whole thing is simply preposterous, I like Nobs just as much as the next guy, but I don't support sysoprevoking him when he's done nothing wrong, and that is putting it lightly. Palaeonictis Fossil beds 14:01, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
It's not like we're banning him. Nobs can live just fine without sysop. He doesn't need it, and we don't need him to have it. DuceMoosoliniYour friendly RW dictator moderator 14:25, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
  • The next mod election is going to be a joyous occasion. I can picture it now. This is so totally not sarcasm. Regardless, for future reference the coop case is now at RationalWiki:Chicken coop/Archive80. NekoDysk 10:52, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

Election Preparations[edit]

@DuceMoosolini @LeftyGreenMario @Bongolian @RWRW @Spud

So, I think I mentioned this earlier, but I believe that this election cycle (particularly the Democratic primary) will bring a lot of edit conflicts, possibly along the lines of the I/P Clusterfuck. Ergo, we should probably think about what topics of discussion will be likely to provoke HCM and monitor discussions closely. Let's just take some precaution. RoninMacbeth (talk) 06:45, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

@RoninMacbeth, sorry if I'm being dense. What is "I/P" here? Bongolian (talk) 07:04, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
Israel-Palestine. It was a huge deal before I came here, and apparently it sort of got absorbed and/or morphed into a huge Sanders vs. Clinton conflict here, which was only just dying down when I joined. But it drove a lot of users away, such as Paravant and AgingHippie. Fuzzy would know more. The point is, we should be prepared if something similar happens this time. RoninMacbeth (talk) 07:21, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
Should we watch the Cortez person's page? --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 07:22, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
Oh yeah. I guess I didn't connect it with the US election cycle. Bongolian (talk) 07:24, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
Now that I remember, the graph posted of our edit history suggested that spikes in activity coincided with the election cycles as well (spikes in 2008, 2012, and 2016, with dropoffs soon after). RoninMacbeth (talk) 07:51, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
Was there any pages that experienced conflict during the last election? (other than the obvious)--RWRW (talk) 09:35, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
WIGO World was a big one, I think. There was a lot of argument about whether or not Glenn Greenwald was a reliable source, and a similar argument about the New York Times. Bernie Sanders was another one. I'll see if I can find more examples, the archives for ATIM and the coop ought to have more information. RoninMacbeth (talk) 15:38, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
And yes, we should monitor the page for AOC. Just to be sure. RoninMacbeth (talk) 15:42, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
If you could all just realize ikanreed is always on the totally right side of any upcoming arguments you'd realize how much easier moderation could be. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 16:29, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
Indeed, moderating a wiki consisting solely of you would be very easy indeed. RoninMacbeth (talk) 17:30, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
So, you don't think he would be hard on himself. eh?Ariel31459 (talk) 18:12, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
The Israel/Palestine conflict metastasized around one particularly prolific and opinionated editor. I don't remember Sanders/Clinton being as big of a deal as the I/P debate was here. There were other shit storms involving loud editors, for example, Gamergate and Ryulong. With respect to the 2020 elections, it is important, I think, to keep RationalWiki focused on missional topics and not let it overly devolve into politics. Cosmikdebris (talk) 23:50, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
Goodpost.gif Bongolian (talk) 00:06, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
Yeah, but in spite of his tendentious obsession(or maybe because of it?), RyuLong was pretty much spot on in his analysis and facts about GamerGate. I still feel bad about how that one ended. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 15:51, 26 February 2019 (UTC)
Oh... I remember that. I regret starting the Coop case in question that led to Ryulong giving up his sysopship and leaving in disgust. I think it's best if we left it in the past, all things considered. Palaeonictis Fossil beds 16:28, 26 February 2019 (UTC)
The point of this discussion is how to keep it in the past. Any bad blood from I/P should be left in the past, and we should try to avert making any new grudges. RoninMacbeth (talk) 16:31, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

i got no good advice sorry dude FuzzyCatPotato!™ (talk/stalk) 04:45, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Fair enough. Thanks for thinking about this, though. RoninMacbeth (talk) 04:49, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

@LeftyGreenMario Yes, I think we should watch "the Cortez person's page." (LOL!) I'm currently one of the main contributors of that page. I can always use an extra hand keeping up the quality. Nerd (talk) 05:00, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

I was afraid to flub up the name, and it's a pain navigating in mobile. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 07:25, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
@LeftyGreenMario This is where her initials AOC come in handy. (Is it wrong if we were to refer to her as simply Ms. Cortez?) Nerd (talk) 18:34, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
@Nerd If by wrong you mean imperfectly polite, then yes. Use Ocasio Cortez unless you mean the conquistador.Ariel31459 (talk) 18:40, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
@Ariel31459 I suspected that this was a rather common surname. Apparently, I'm not that far off. Anyway, context should make it clear whom we are referring to. Nerd (talk) 18:58, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
BREAKING NEWS: Hernan Cortez rises from grave, declares candidacy for Republican nomination! RoninMacbeth (talk) 19:06, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

Logicnsuch Sockpuppets[edit]

We've been seeing a rise in the number of Logicnsuch sockpuppets who are all "asking" who he is. The questions, of course, are a)Are these sockpuppets in fact sockpuppets and b)How to respond? Should we, perhaps, institute a prohibition in new accounts mentioning Logicnsuch? Such as, perhaps, getting the techs to add his name to the edit filter? Please discuss. RoninMacbeth (talk) 16:53, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

Repurposed an old filter. Should do the job. Palaeonictis Fossil beds 17:02, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
Glad to see someone else noticed. I am reasonably sure everyone mentioning Logicnsuch is them. I am also rapidly coming to the conclusion the same thing is happening with Mike/Abd/Smith, whom are equally annoying. I turned on Special:AbuseFilter/2 now. :) NekoDysk 19:21, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

roll back[edit]

is there a way to tag a revision when you roll back indicating the reason? i just did and i didnt see an option for that, and it didnt really warrant having to engage with the fucknut to explain myself AMassiveGay (talk) 22:53, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

You have to "undo" rather than rollback, if you want to add an edit summary. NekoDysk 23:10, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Bongolian, again[edit]

The Conservapedia:RobSmith page is about a living person. Bongolian made at least two totally ficticious claims today:

  1. That RobSmith is a birther.
  2. That RobSmith relies on Brietbart and WND.

Both claims are demonstrably without merit.

RobSmith removed the birther movement bullshit from at least a half dozen CP articles, no easy task. This can be seen in these two edits before and after on 8 August 2018. That's only one page. I would have removed them earlier, but most occurred over a period of time when I was banned. August 2018 was the first opportunity I had to correct them.

As to Brietbart & WND, if I've used WND three times in 15 years I'd be amazed. I don't read it. Brietbart I rarely use. The claim Bongolian makes that I cited Brietbart for a birther claim is false. There are Brietbart citations on other subjects in the edit Bongolian provides, but those citations were made by others. I was organizing and rearranging the page.

I don't mind criticism, I welcome it. But false and baseless statements are not appreciated. Please, somebody call your attack dog off. nobsI'm all yea'res 23:32, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

@Bongolian If nobs' claims are true, then you should edit the article accordingly. DuceMoosoliniYour friendly RW dictator moderator 01:28, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
Should we take @Bongolian to the Coop, then? This continued harassment is uncalled for, and will only get worse and cause another case of HCM if left untreated. Übermensch Pierce through the wonder of amazement at the ubermensch 02:32, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
I'd be happy if he just takes out the uncited junk he put in today. It's an opportunity to mitigate a coop case. nobsI'm all yea'res 03:32, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
Nobs: I quoted exactly what you said on the Conservapedia:RobSmith page. You engaged in Birtherism in two instances (November 2018 and February 2019), one of which is still present on the Conservapedia page. 1) If you changed your mind about Birtherism, that's admirable, but this false statement made by you is still on the Conservapedia Barack Obama page, "The Birther movement was started by Obama himself." 2) Conservapedian user "Timber" removed your birth certificate watermark bullshit, not you.[7] Bongolian (talk) 03:57, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
Show my supposed citation to Brietbart. nobsI'm all yea'res 05:25, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────While it is true that you did not cite Breitbart, you put that text as a caption under an image that came originally via Breitbart. This is as per Snopes, as I cited it.[8] I don't see why you find Breitbart objectionable but The Daily Caller is not. Is there a hierarchy of acceptable crankery on Conservapedia? Bongolian (talk) 05:43, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Bongolian, did nobs cite Breitbart in the text of an article? If not, you saying that he does is stretching the truth a little, right? RoninMacbeth (talk) 06:32, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
The caption did not "originally" come from Brietbart. The caption came from Obama's publisher. Remove the Brietbart reference. nobsI'm all yea'res 06:35, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
Nobs did not cite Breitbart in the text of the article and I did not claim that he did. What I said was, "Nobs' claim was based on Breitbart.com reprinting in 2012 of a 1991 promotional booklet written by Obama's literary agency, which stated that he was born in Kenya. Neither Andrew Breitbart, nor Breitbart.com were birthers, and the literary agent who wrote the information stated that it was an error and did not come from information provided by Obama." This is true on it's face because Nobs inserted both the image and the caption, and the caption that he inserted has the Breitbart watermark. Scroll down and look at the image for the text ("The Birther movement was started by Obama himself.") at this citation that I provided.[9] Bongolian (talk) 06:41, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
Brietbart has nothing to do with this.
I don't see what the controversy is. A 'birther' is one who denies Obama is a U.S. natural born citizen. Obama contracted with a publisher who promoted Obama as foreign born. I reported facts. Nowhere did I question if indeed Obama was foreign born.
You are reading things (again) into the text that simply are not there . nobsI'm all yea'res 06:47, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
You stated two falsehoods — according to reputable fact-checking organizations — that feed directly into birtherism and that you yourself did not correct. 1) "The Birther movement was started by Obama himself." and 2) "The document bares[sic] a watermark; watermarks were not available in 1961. An original has never been produced." Bongolian (talk) 06:55, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
Here's another CP page I cleaned up of birtherism. There were at least six, as I recall. Writing on the birther movement is not being a birther. By that standard, Snopes are birthers. nobsI'm all yea'res 06:58, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
Here's one that goes back to 2011, before I was banned. I consolidated material written by others, what I added I don't remember. Nowherre do I express an editorial stance on the issue. It's fine writing, in keeping with Wikipedia NPOV. nobsI'm all yea'res 07:08, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
And some of these claims are ridiculous, like the insertion of "president" in unrelated articles. It's been a constant ongoing battle. I'v done more to cleanup CP of birtherism than anybody else, and it is not something I am proud to boast about. nobsI'm all yea'res 07:22, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Again Bongolian misrepresents facts. The full statement he cites is: "The alleged forged document on the White House website. Birth certificate The document bares a watermark; watermarks were not available in 1961. An original has never been produced." I am reverting your edits. You can start over. nobsI'm all yea'res 07:43, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

And if what Snopes says is true, Obama should sue his publisher and get his money back. nobsI'm all yea'res 07:47, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
In 2004, I personally heard Gloria BorgerWikipedia's W.svg say on PBS's Washington Week in Review say that Obama was born in Kenya. Why don't you go post up all your crap on Gloria Borger's and PBS's pages? nobsI'm all yea'res 07:57, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
I would like to call upon the other moderators (@DuceMoosolini, @LeftyGreenMario, @RoninMacbeth, @RWRW and @Spud) to adjudicate this issue. Nobs has edited his own page (Conservapedia:RobSmith); this is highly frowned upon for obvious reasons, and there is precedent for not allowing people to edit pages about themselves other than their own home pages. Rather than jump into an immediate coop again, I'm calling upon you to evaluate the evidence text and the evidence that I presented:

Nobs engaged in Obama citizenship denial, a form of racism, by falsely claiming that Obama's birth certificate was fake because, "The document bares[sic] a watermark; watermarks were not available in 1961. An original has never been produced."[1] Nobs' claim was presumably based on conspiracy theorist Jerome Corsi's claim and was debunked by FactCheck.org.[2]

Nobs also falsely claimed that Obama himself started the birther movement, "The birther movement was started by Obama himself."[3] Nobs' claim was based on Breitbart.com reprinting in 2012 of a 1991 promotional booklet written by Obama's literary agency, which stated that he was born in Kenya. Neither Andrew Breitbart, nor Breitbart.com were birthers, and the literary agent who wrote the information stated that it was an error and did not come from information provided by Obama.[4]

Really, I would have preferred to ignore Nobs and Conservapedia as I had done for years. Since he tried to get elected moderator, people need to understand who he really is, that he holds views that are not just eccentric but that are in opposition to the foundational purposes of RationalWiki. Bongolian (talk) 18:48, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
Is there a specific instance where a person added content to their own page that was then reverted on those grounds? If so, could you please provide links to such a case? RoninMacbeth (talk) 20:42, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
It sounds an awful lot like an attempt to import Wikipedias COI policy to me. However if we were to suddenly apply that policy, both Bongolian and nobs would be prohibited from editing the page. Making the issue moot. NekoDysk 20:44, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
The problem with that analysis is that RW has, generally, avoided strict policy, deciding issues via the mob votes that are (very lightly) advised by precedent. If we WERE to import the COI policy from Wikipedia, that would require a full community vote. RoninMacbeth (talk) 20:47, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
Generally we remove content if it's crap, it has nothing to do with who wrote it. That said, people often try and whitewash their articles an we generally undo their changes. But I contend this is because the changes are crap, not because they were made by the subject. NekoDysk 20:50, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
But the specific reason Bongolian summoned the other moderators here was because nobs was editing his own article, not because the edits were shitty. If that was the main issue, then this discussion would be taking place at Conservapedia talk:RobSmith, not here. So if the main problem is that nobs's edits were just shitty, then, well, why isn't this being discussed at Conservapedia talk:RobSmith? RoninMacbeth (talk) 20:58, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
Probably because nobs feels that the edits by Bongolian are directly connected to the fact they still having a tiff. Therefore it's a conduct issue, and not so much a content issue. NekoDysk 21:13, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Nobs is trying to whitewash his own page, as other have done before and were reverted for the attempted whitewashing, e.g., Emil Emil_Kirkegaard[10]

So nobs is just a low quality editor but I don't see how this is concerning right now, like hasn't he done this sort of crap already? --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 21:58, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
If the consensus is moderators are unimpressed by what Nobs has had to say here, then I'll reinstate my edits, and lock the page if he persists on editing it. As I've stated before, I'm happy to correct factual errors, and I previously went so far as to invite Dysklyver to edit my edits on that page. Bongolian (talk) 23:03, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
Indeed, Bongolian's previous edits to the page were mostly fine (I changed some minor details). I haven't looked into the more recent edits yet, beyond noting the fact nobs is clearly upset. NekoDysk 23:21, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
If that is the case, then I think this is settled. RoninMacbeth (talk) 23:32, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
I'm all for taking the discussion to Conservapedia talk:RobSmith, where it can be ignored. Mind you, these false and slanders edits are about a living person - additionally made by a Moderator. And a Mod's job is to mediate and resolve disputes, not slander living persons on Rationalwiki with false information and bring the project into disrepute. nobsI'm all yea'res 00:47, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

Will someone please remove the false information Bongolian admitted to in this discussion[edit]

He locked the page, and continues to insert false and slanderous information - that he admitted was false in this thread, about a living person. nobsI'm all yea'res 04:29, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

Furthermore, he posted "Nobs engaged in Obama citizenship denial, a form of racism," which clearly is disproven by these three edits. before and after and here (more available).

Bongolian's claim he cites to Dr. Corsi leaves out my reference to an "alleged forgery." nobsI'm all yea'res 04:44, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

Nowhere do I express an opinion pro or con. I mediated a dispute between warring factions with neutral language based on available evidence from both sides. nobsI'm all yea'res 04:47, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

@RobSmith "I'm all for taking the discussion to Conservapedia talk:RobSmith, where it can be ignored." Too fucking bad, we're going there. Pick a difflink of the article that you prefer, and try to convince the mob to implement your version. I dislike discussing editorial content on the mod noticeboard when Bongolian starts it, and I sure as hell dislike doing it when you do so. I'll set up a vote. RoninMacbeth (talk) 06:28, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
@DuceMoosolini @LeftyGreenMario @RoninMacbeth @RWRW @Spud You may want to vote on this since Nobs is trying to enshrine his views on his webpage that I view as being highly problematic, as I detailed there: Conservapedia talk:RobSmith#Edit War, RobSmith v. Bongolian. Bongolian (talk) 23:55, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
Patience, grasshopper. I will vote when I feel like I can confidently make the best choice for the Wiki. RoninMacbeth (talk) 00:00, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

Why do we put up with constant trolling by unlicensed thinker?[edit]

He doesn't believe a goddamn word he says. He just wants to shit stir on the bar. Is there some grounds for it? ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 16:52, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

For clarity of archives this is answered in the section below. My best summary of the conclusion is "We tolerate it as long as it doesn't violate any guidelines on disruptive". I weep for the subjective. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 17:35, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

Accusation of racism[edit]

To the moderators: @Bongolian, @DuceMoosolini, @LeftyGreenMario, @RWRW, @RoninMacbeth, @Spud

Besides the usual "dumbass", "shut the fuck up", "You're a dumb fuck", "shut the fuck" coming from @Ikanreed, he recently accused me of being of a racist. Precisely, he replied to one of my posts with:

"wow they obviously qualified a different word in the sentence to defray legal risk of alleging a crime, that must mean they're bigoted against racist morons like me" You're a dumb fuck, and I reiterate you should shut the fuck up, and stop pretending like you've got a point. You don't. You do actually know you're full of shit. You know you're putting on a show. Take those crocodile tears and use them to lube up your shitty opinion and shove it back up your ass where it came from.

If on the one hand I find insults like "dumbass" quite childish and I think they do not make any damage to me (although I do not see how the reiteration of "shut the fuck up" conciliates with RW standard "We welcome contributors, and encourage those who disagree with us to register and engage in constructive dialogue"); On the other hand I find an accusation of racism quite serious and damaging, because other users (not having the time to dig into my all contributions) could think I really expressed racist thoughts in the past, which of course I didn't (I don't even remember if I ever talked about race on RW).

So I ask ikanreed to prove his accusations of me being a racist or to retrieve them, and I ask the moderators to settle this situation once for all, so that in his next post ikanreed will not come up with another accusation like that. Thinker(unlicensed) 17:08, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

Ban this whiner. Seriously, just fucking do it. This is like the tenth time they've pitched a fit at being called on their bullshit, while flagrantly trolling. Has this user ever contributed anything of value to this wiki? Has this user ever posted something to the saloon bar that wasn't at least a little trolling? Why the fuck are we putting up with this shit? ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 17:14, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
Good gods in Asgard, this is the Lankaster thing all over again. What the fuck is going on between you two? RoninMacbeth (talk) 17:16, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
You know what? No. Fuck that. It's not personal. I don't have some hate boner for the guy. Just every single goddamn time they post at the bar it's some dishonest-as-hell bullshit. And when I treat it as such, they run here whining "it's so unfair, they called me a racist because I said racist shit". ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 17:26, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
@Ikanreed, get back to me when and if UT violates Community Standards in some meaningful way. @UnlicensedThinker I haven't gone through all of your edits yet, but I'm far more inclined to trust Ikanreed when it comes to your subtext than you. Now both of you, clear off of here until something actually important happens. RoninMacbeth (talk) 17:30, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
"I haven't gone through all of your edits yet, but I'm far more inclined to trust Ikanreed when it comes to your subtext than you."
@RoninMacbeth That's exactly the problem I mentioned: users don't have time to read all my contributions, so they are gonna assume that I really said something racist because ikanreed is claiming so -although he gave no proofs- and I'll be effectively labeled as racist.
"And when I treat it as such, they run here whining "it's so unfair, they called me a racist because I said racist shit"".
@Ikanreed So you are reiterating you accusation. Show me one instance when I made a racist statement. Thinker(unlicensed) 17:54, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
What part of "both of you clear off of here until something actually important happens" do you fail to understand? If you have a problem with Ikanreed, take this to the Bar or his talkpage. I AM NOT ADJUDICATING THIS ISSUE. RoninMacbeth (talk) 18:01, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
I'm seeing ikanreed and AMassiveGay trying their hardest to reason with you and you're coming off as obtuse, IMO. It's infuriating to argue that way. Maybe ikanreed should've approached this better, just maybe, but I don't see why I should be taking any action. You guys should just try to resolve this and do not sealion. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 21:21, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
I agree with LeftyGreenMario. This does not (as yet) require moderation. Bongolian (talk) 21:25, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
I agree with the above comments, this doesn't need Moderator mediation yet. Its best to try and talk things out on a talk page and not let things flare into a larger-scale community issue. --RWRW (talk) 15:03, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
@LeftyGreenMario"I'm seeing ikanreed and AMassiveGay trying their hardest to reason with you and you're coming off as obtuse"
Let's say that you are completely right: That doesn't mean that ikanreed accusing me of being a racist is OK. Can a user call another user "racist" in a thread that has nothing to do with race? Can he make again the same accusation without giving any proof? This is the issue here, and you are ignoring it. Thinker(unlicensed) 21:47, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

New account trolls[edit]

It might be worth disabling account creation for one week. I have spent a lot of time on this Wiki creating articles, I try to avoid talk-pages but now new accounts are targeting me. I now seem to be a target from Mikemikev/Abd Lomax/ Smith drama. Now when I create an article Mikemikev turns up trolling the talk-page on a different account pretending to be a different identity. Yesterday I was up through the night debating this troll. A total waste of my time. He had never read up on the topic of statin denialism before yesterday, so he had no idea what he was talking about, it was just a way to provoke me. I like this Wiki but there is far too much trolling here from new accounts. People can put hard time in creating decent articles here and then are trolled by a series of ridiculous sock-puppets, it is not really fair. I am not sure if account disable has done before, but just a suggestion. The typical response will be ignore the trolls, yeh I understand but this trolling is tiresome and is messing up this Wiki. Something better should be done about it. John66 (talk) 18:22, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

Umm. First of all, I don't even know if it can be done. Second of all, hell no. Mods closing account creation for a week seems pretty "mod-overreachy" to me. RoninMacbeth (talk) 18:27, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
Completely infringes upon the rights of the Educated Proletariat. Request denied. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 18:29, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
There does seem to be an increase in sock related nonsense lately, but I don't even think preventing account creation is possible. Even if it is it will only impact genuine new users. --RWRW (talk) 18:31, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
@John66 Try ignoring the trolls. If that proves too taxing, ping ikanreed and ask him to apply his usual diplomatic balm to the problem. Ariel31459 (talk) 18:33, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
Also, if the trolling gets bad on a particular page, moderators can protect it so that only autoconfirmed users can edit it. You are welcome to ask for that here if that is ever the case. Bongolian (talk) 19:11, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Easily reverted and blocked stuff might be annoying but they're incapable of any lasting damage. Mikemikev can only accomplish wasting your time but you also learn how to deal with him better. Actual damage would be locking account creation, though. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 19:25, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

I would vastly prefer we just banned everyone involved than closed account creation (which isn't an option even worth considering, to be clear). RationalWiki is an open wiki, meaning anybody can contribute, and by it's nature this includes the fact there will be trolls. It doesn't even matter if all the trolls are one person, because there are unlimited numbers of mad cranks out there who could appear at any time and start behaving in the same way. If you really can't handle some trolls, then spend a week away from the Wiki or something and have a nice break. NekoDysk 19:46, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

Rate limit sysop actions[edit]

Per @Ikanreed who mentioned that someone could cause havoc with automated tools on a sysop account, I propose that a rate limit to how fast admin actions could be completed. The rate limit would not apply to bot flagged accounts, techs, or mods. As an example, the following approximate restrictions.

  • each sysop can only make 25 actions of each type an hour (except blocks)
  • each sysop can only make 1 promotion/demotion to sysop per half hour
  • an account must be a month old before promoting another account to sysop

Restrictions would be enabled using an edit filter, anyone breaking the limit would be warned, and failure to observe the warning would trigger automatic desysoping of that account.

This would obviously prevent significant automated damage by a runaway crazy sysop. NekoDysk 16:16, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

This technical solution to a social problem is not an easy one to implement. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 16:18, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
It's a hard limit to the number of general sysop actions and a general fix to prevent circumvention through creating new accounts and sysoping them. Therefore it would be impossible to cause significant disruption to the wiki, even with a sysop account. In other words, it's a bot to stop a bot. (I have been assured that the technical aspect of this is possible). NekoDysk 16:32, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
Yes, and you're demanding an extremely complex technical system to implement. Have you looked over the mediawiki sourcecode? It's gigantically complicated and each sysop function is a completely separate module. Rate limiting "Actions" in a broad sense is all but impossible and would require a month or more of full-time software engineer and QA effort to develop. We don't have the funds or volunteers for that. I know it's tempting to say "let the software handle this problem" with an arbitrary set of requirements that you think might fix the issue. But the truth is "soft" solutions are so much better in 99% of cases than hard solutions. It's the same thing as with the edit filters you tried to put in, you're trying to automate a human job.
I don't think we've ever had a malicious sysop who wasn't also demoted with too-few quality mainspace edits. It's such an easy restriction to abide by, but you want to do some chat room power broking shit. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 16:48, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
Well I am a bit of a mediawiki dev myself and already have written the filters, if you ever change your mind. NekoDysk 18:39, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
While this all sounds fascinating, why is it being discussed here? RoninMacbeth (talk) 18:50, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
Because I promised ikanreed not to embark on any hare-brained schemes of wiki domination without getting some input on why it is definitely not a good idea which will never happen first. NekoDysk 19:01, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

PSA about User:Anti-Authoritarian[edit]

@Anti-Authoritarian All sysops should be careful when patrolling the edits of this user. They regularly make mistakes that are not immediately obvious in the diffs such as adding links that do not work (see their coop case, contributions, their talk page where they have been repeatedly notified about this, and my recent edit fixing their mistakes). CowHouse (talk) 04:57, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

Reddit Reclamation Project[edit]

@LeftyGreenMario @RWRW @Spud @DuceMoosolini @Bongolian @FuzzyCatPotato @David Gerard I would like to propose the Reddit Reclamation Project, an attempt to reclaim r/RationalWiki from the trolls who ruined it and restore it to its glory. Here is my plan:

  1. Ask for three RationalWiki volunteers to use their Reddit accounts to subscribe to r/RationalWiki or sign up with new Reddit accounts.
  2. Ask David and Fuzzy to grant these volunteers modding rights, and to allow them to step down if they do not wish to have anything to do with it anymore.
  3. Amend the rules to also ban users who are banned here, as well as disallowing harassment, unconstructive trolling, etc.
  4. Invite more RationalWikians to repopulate the subreddit.
  5. Once this is done, slowly allow more users to post until a state of normalcy may resume.
  6. Once this is done, allow the subreddit more autonomy.

Thoughts? RoninMacbeth (talk) 03:03, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

I'm not on Reddit, but it sounds reasonable to me. Bongolian (talk) 03:08, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
I second this motion. Nerd (talk) 03:18, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
I created an account several months ago but never use it. I don't mind keeping an eye on it if no one else wants to. --RWRW (talk) 03:24, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
All I can say is that I have zero experience with Reddit. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 04:40, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
I also have zero experience with Reddit. And, since pretty much all I know about is what I've read here on RW, I don't think very highly of it. However, if the community here wants me to go there and try to clean things up, I'd be prepared to give it a go. Spud (talk) 05:02, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
I also have very little experience with it, but I believe that it would be a useful platform, just like the Discord. RoninMacbeth (talk) 05:03, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
  • ex-mod waves hand* this looks like a good plan, but I'm not on reddit enough to be an effective mod there. Good luck with this though. Avida Dollarsher again 08:12, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
Main thing is having enough people who give a shit. Nobody really posted there, like, for years. Then the obsessive banned trolls showed up, then 100% of the effort was kicking them, then I went "this is rubbish" and closed it. If you think you can revive it to something useful, let me know your Reddit username and I'll add you as a mod - but I'm not sanguine it has potential, really - David Gerard (talk) 09:05, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
Well, I've just created an account, just in case. Spud (talk) 09:17, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
Well I am on Reddit as u/Dysklyver, (not to be confused with u/TheDysklyver which is actually Mikemikev trolling me), but don't use it regularly or anything. NekoDysk 10:31, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
I am on Reddit as u/RoninMacbeth. RoninMacbeth (talk) 14:33, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
added the three of you, now it's your job to post content and fend off the banned trolls! - David Gerard (talk) 16:35, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
@David Gerard What about the other social media platforms?
@Spud It's a platform used mainly by young people, so don't keep your expectations high. Usage drops with age. Nerd (talk) 14:41, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
still need someone who will post on-topic links on the RW Facebook - email me with your Facebook timeline page and I'll add you - David Gerard (talk) 16:33, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
WIGO integration might be a good idea (i.e. WIGO stories with more than *n* upvotes get posted on Reddit). That might bring some life in to the sub. Personally I much prefer using Reddit over MediaWiki for conversations/discussions. Martin (talk) 03:58, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

A Problem With Two Cows?[edit]

On the intertubes section (specifically the Reddit subsection) has a description of /r/The_Donald that is a bit disconcerting to me as it describes an opposing candidate as "the enemy". I'm not sure if it's for taking the piss out of TD users or not, I just thought I'd alert the mods. If it's not a problem then I apologize for the bother. Towards-the Unknown (talk) 00:54, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

re read that entire section again or indeed take another look at that page. even if there was some intentional message of hate or whatever, directed at any group, its lost in a sea on nonsense. if there is any problem on that page its that people are still adding to it AMassiveGay (talk) 01:58, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
This is not a moderator issue. We're here mainly as a last resort to resolve disputes, not as the first place to go to fix pages: that's an editor/Sysop task. Bongolian (talk) 02:06, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
I don't see anything offensive at all in that section. It should be quite obvious that the whole thing is a parody. Also, this isn't anything that the moderators need to be notified about. Cosmikdebris (talk) 02:10, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── @Towards-the Unknown There's an amazing new feature that allows you to solve conundrums such as these, check it out, it's called "editing." Big shock I know, has only been around ever since writing was first invented. Cutting edge technology if I may say so myself. Oxyaena Harass 02:48, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

@Oxyaena I did edit it before but it was reverted. Regardless, it seems I shouldn't have written here and I need to tune my online joke detector... again. x_x Towards-the Unknown (talk) 03:29, 20 April 2019 (UTC)